is using Nfusion safe? - Free To Air TV Forum, FTA Keys and Downloads, Dish Network, Nagravision 3

MOD · #1 (**permalink**) 22nd December 2008, 02:52 PM

i have been doing a lot of reading about Nfusion lately and am seeing a lot of mixed results about nfusion being safe to use. just wondering if anyone has any info on the matter they would like to share about using this reciever and can you be traced? please let me know. Thanks

marek163 · #2 (**permalink**) 22nd December 2008, 03:29 PM

c/p from another site...
I hope this will help- in some way?

Facts about IKS - Accessing Nagra 3

Nagra 3, which BEV and DN are using on their systems, and many fear is unbreakable is....well, broken. Its just a matter of implementing it in FTA, if this can be done because the current break is being used in Europe with Card-sharing (IKS) as well as in Nfusion in Canada/USA and Mexico.

For those who say Nfusion did not hack Nagra3. your right they didnt. They don't have to because this is the way they designed their equipment to work.

Nfusion can operate in 3 ways. (Although most people are only aware of 2).
IKS/Card Sharing - The involves sharing woring key data, almost as if you were running a subscription. This is Nfusions primary method.
Emulator - Nfusion can run in full emulation which most receivers cannot. Most are partial, although they claim full. CNX is an example of Full Emu. Although Nfusion does not currently allow both emulator and IKS . Although they have in the past, and they will again in the future. This is a "card hack" that is the same as using an Fta Receiver and Autorolling bins. This is Nfusions secondary (or backup).
KS - Yes, just plain old Key-sharing, which is pre-loaded and not maintained by internet connections. Some IKS boxes already do this (I believe Neo-IKS does this) and SonicView is currently in the works of designing a circuit board that can be added inside SV boxes. It is the same as IKS , except users are downloading the data, lets say to USB and loading them to the boxes. A mix between Emulation and IKS sort of.
At the moment, Nfusion is running IKS , but when problems occur they can release an Emulated BIN , they have done this before when having issues with IKS . At the moment we have only seen Nagra 3 operate on IKS , but that is not to say they don't have an emulator working on it.

Now, I keep reading posts and whiners saying "NFUSION NEVER HACKED N3, ITS JUST A TEMPORARY WORKAROUND." and/or "They can only access some channels, they suck/have no way to carck nagra3".

-Their goal was not the crack Nagra 3. They use key/card sharing and they have proven themselves in IKS as no other box has accessed Nagra 3 yet. Nfusion intended to use IKS to access Nagra 3 and its working. Yes at the moment they can only access some channels, and yes the list is growing daily. No one receiver coding team can snap their fingers and all the channels are there. Even when cards were cracked, we have Football Cards, Hockey Cards, Movies, Locals, etc. We didn't get "wide open" right away. Also, it is not a temporary fix, IT IS THE FIX. Some believe the job they have done is incomplete. IT IS COMPLETE. Now they are just adding channels.

The reason they don't have all the channels is because they are acquiring key data for each and every channel. It is believed they are using subscription cards (new N3/G3 cards) and sharing them amoung IKS followers (nf) allowing them access to whatever channels that card accesses. Remember when you get a sub, you dont a card and then EVERY channel is open. You get packages like sports, movies, dish 500, etc. So even if they are using Subscription cards, and people believe this will be caught and removed, they are so far the ONLY known people to read a Nagra 3 card and/or data. So before you go bashing Nfusion, they have done more than anyone else and are the only ones with a working Nagra 3 system. They have done an outstanding job. Basically, yes Nfusion has cracked Nagra 3. No they didnt release a wide open emulator. But this was their intentions, even their Nagra 2 runs on IKS not emulation.

IKS Security - Don't fear being caught or let anyone scare you

As an IKS user you take a chance, same chance as using a modified FTA box. Some people take extra steps to secure their IKS box "just in case". Remember (in Canada at least) you have rights while using the internet, many of which internet providers try to break by using EULA, but the law overpowers them in every way.

IKS Security:
Note: IKS is already on a secure connection, if Dik or B*v were able to catch users on the secure servers, they would have done so already. They can not.
Use a proxy, this involves connecting to a server somewhere else in the world, and can be done more than once to provide a lily-pad theory, so even if they did track your connection it would bounce through China to Germany to India back to China.
Use cable-hack, for those with cable internet access. if you are really worried and have a little extra spending cash. There is a cable modem, gone by the terms of Cable-Hack and we actually have a section in our forums. It is a non-provisioned cable modem, similar to that the cable company provides. This modem allows you to set your own settings instead of the cable co doing it for you. It allows you to remove your speed cap (not recommend because cable co can obviously recognize this) but also allows you to use the internet privately, and not reveal your IP/Identity. Meant for IKS users!

IKS is much safer than everyone thinks. Many people are scared, but you have just as good as a chance as being caught with an FTA Box. Allow there is no e-trail, law enforcement have many ways of detecting if you are using a service. I was previously with Cogeco Cable Loss Prevention and we had a device that when aimed at a cable line, similar to a radar gun, would show a live picture of the cable turning an orange colour, like infra red. Dish can check records to see if the residence has a subscription, and can tell where the dish is aimed, and tell if is aimed in the Direction . Also, remember when you have a receiver connected, it sends power down the line to the dish, for those who think "Well anyone could have a dish mounted and aimed, but it doesnt mean Im stealing service". Yes, they can.

Simply, when are not paying for ********** regardless of IKS or FTA, or even a DN STB . You are taking a chance.

My mother has her satellite dish inside her apartment, aiming directly through a glass window and she gets 98% signal. If you are that scared, you can do this. It DOES work.

Also, a story of my own. I was receiving DN with an FTA box a couple years back, and RCMP with the company of B*v[/i] representative, came knocking on my door. They asked for permission to check out my satellite. The rcmp officer stated they were looking for B*v Theft of service, and I advised him it was Dik in USA, and he said the RCMP really doesn't care and told me not to worry because no law in Canada or ontario says you cant steal american signal. He said if you steal B*v, you would be in quite some trouble and I showed him briefly, and they left.

I hope that comforts the Canadians here in the forum. The only reason DAVE got away with charging Canadians, is because they registered a business in Canada, and stated they were going to start providing service in Canada. Then they had right to charge whoever, being a Canadian provider. They nailed thousands of people, then Closed up shop in Canada and headed home. From time to time they still come here and nail businesses. Just last week they hit a satellite shop down the street for providing equipment that allowed users to illegal obtain dik service. (Im not sure what it was or how).

lyncher · #3 (**permalink**) 22nd December 2008, 03:55 PM

hmmmm interesting the plot thickens as Team Viewsat has stated they have no intentions period to have anything to do with ''IKS'' period

lyncher · #4 (**permalink**) 22nd December 2008, 03:58 PM

Update From Cyphris About VS & IKS Please Read
IKS is very dangerous and has all the proof for the providers needed to go after individuals. Remember the Letters Dave sent well… I will just say come the New Year all IKS users are in for a surprise and it is not a real cracked N3 either. All have been warned of the dangers of IKS so come 2009 better be prepared to face the downside of it all. VS Coders refuse to go with IKS as it is far too unsafe for the end user.

MOD · #5 (**permalink**) 22nd December 2008, 05:12 PM

yes your right i remember that post from cyphris. im just curious as to how nfusion users feel about all of this. do any of you feel safe? this is good stuff. keep letting me know everyone. thanks

FARJOHN · #6 (**permalink**) 22nd December 2008, 06:23 PM

A Good Read................

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Thinking Bout IKS?
C&P, written by insaneaudio

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IKS (abbreviation for "Internet Key Sharing") receivers have been growing in popularity due to their reputation of almost always being "UP." Owners of IKS units often boast that "their" receivers can weather most ECMs and downtime can usually be measured in mere minutes. In contrast, most cardless receivers must endure wait times of many hours or even days before new bin files are released. More recently, IKS dongles have been developed that can transform some brands of FTA receivers into IKS receivers and are now available for the Captain and Coolsat line of receivers. Currently, the latter only works with CS6100 models and higher but the developers of the Coolsat IKS dongle state that it will soon be compatible with the discontinued CS4K/5K/6K models in addition to other brands and models of FTA receivers. Proponents of IKS claim that the dongle will give a whole new lease on life to discontinued models of receivers, not just Coolsat models. The price of the IKS dongle is approximately $89 or about half the price of purchasing a new IKS receiver. The dongle does require a source of power. In the case of the Captain dongle, the power supply is integrated into the dongle itself. The Coolsat dongle requires an external AC/DC adapter.

How does an IKS dongle work? By forming an interface or bridge between the receiver and an Internet IKS server. You simply connect the dongle to the serial port of the FTA receiver; then connect the dongle to the Internet using a standard CAT5 Ethernet cable. IKS requires an Internet connection in order to connect to one of half a dozen or more relay servers that, in turn, connect to the "real" server (currently located in Korea based on the server's IP address). The IKS receivers obtain certain data (not really "keys" in the conventional sense) from the server via the relays and then uses that information to unscramble encrypted video content. The precise mechanism has not been revealed for probably a couple of reasons: one may be to protect a trade secret but the more likely reason is to make it more difficult for the satellite providers to launch an effective ECM against it. IKS does NOT mean you won't go "down." It only means that you will be able to come back up much faster than having to wait for a new bin release.

But just how safe is IKS? Most users are focused almost entirely on the risk factors associated with having their IP address exposed when connected to the Internet. Of course, any online connection ... including the one that an IKS dongle or receiver (e.g., Nfusion) requires in order for IKS to work ... does expose your IP address to prying eyes. This exposure is not limited to law enforcment agencies but to virtually anyone who has both the moxie and the appropriate hardware/software tools to do so ... and its a pretty safe bet that the content providers have programmers with both. The IKS server requires a UDP connection, not TCP. UDP is generally regarded as being somewhat more secure but the most important difference is that UDP packets travel in only one direction and the connection is dropped after the data packet has been sent to the relay. The server does not monitor whether the relay server is able to deliver the data packet to its ultimate destination. It only cares about whether the relay server has received the data and then terminates the connection. Since the connection time between the master server and its relays is very brief and the amount of data extremely miniscule, it is difficult for outside parties to effectively monitor data transfers between the server to and from the thousands of receivers connected via IKS. It doesn't mean you can't be tracked; only that it would be more difficult to determine what data your receiver actually received and how it was used.

Does that mean IKS is safe? Unfortunately, there isn't a simple "Yes" or "No" answer available. If looked at solely from the viewpoint of IP exposure and monitoring, it is probably 99% "safe." However, regardless of how many or what kinds of multiple relays, proxies, and virtually any other masking scheme is employed, most experts will concede that a talented investigator, given sufficient time and motivation, could successfully track you. The odds or likelihood of someone actually doing so is relatively small unless the data packet you are receiving contained the term "bin laden" or some other terrorist keyword. Does it then mean that because the risk is small, IKS can be deemed to be "safe?" Let's look at some additional facts. No one will argue that the sole purpose or function of an IKS connection is to descramble or decrypt otherwise protected content. The IKS server has NO other purpose than to ACTIVELY allow people connected to it to decode encrypted provider signals (an illegal activity). The IKS server does not provide users with any other useful information or data that would justify the server connection and it has zero function in true FTA. Therefore, if you connect to an IKS server, you are in fact indicating that you are decoding the provider's signals. No reasonable person has ever denied or challenged this simple fact, including Matchstick and Matchbox (the spokespersons for Nfusion). But if no one is tracking your IKS connection via an IP address, "so what!" goes the reasoning of far too many users.

Here's the "so what." If (or probably more accurately, "when") the IKS receivers are challenged in court and the IKS connection is ruled an illegal tool, will the plaintiff have to prove that you actively used it or would the mere purchase of an IKS dongle or receiver be deemed sufficient evidence of guilt? That's a big unknown and impossible for anyone to predict with any degree of accuracy at this time. But if one were to look at the DirecTV litigation launched in 2002-2003 against end users, DTV was able to establish (in the courts of most states but not all) that the mere purchase of an Hu card and card programmer (unlooper) demonstrated intent to pirate their signals based on their claim that the Hu cards "served no other purpose." That was patently false because the cards CAN be used in other applications but the alternate uses represented only a tiny sliver of the market and the vast majority were, in fact, purchased to pirate DTV signals. Of course, by the time that the estimated 24,000 letters of pending litigation were sent out to users, most DTV hackers had already long been exposed and compromised by the sales records that they left behind when they purchased the Hu cards and unloopers. It was impossible for those users to hide their identity after-the-fact or deny they had made the purchases because of the availability of dealers' sales records. DTV obtained those sales records via subpoena. The records included the real identity and addresses of those who purchased the cards making it extremely easy for DTV attorneys to mail out their letters of pending litigation. The tracking of card purchases was the primary tool used by DTV in their now infamous war against DTV signal pirates.

I believe this is where the real danger lies for users who are considering going the IKS route. I see a direct parallel here to the purchase of an IKS dongle or receiver to decrypt provider content because the IKS connection itself "serves no other purpose." I have read many posts regarding the excuses that the poster stated he/she might use if they were ever served with a DTV-like letter. Most of those excuses were completely lame or made in jest and those that were serious probably wouldn't hold up to even the slightest degree of legal scrutiny. An even more important consideration is that if the provider does launch legal action against an IKS user, it would be pretty foolish for that person not to hire an attorney to represent them. If legal representation is retained, win-draw-or-lose, it's going to cost you. In the case of DTV's law suits, they offered to settle out of court for $3,500. Thousands of users settled because the legal fees involved in retaining an attorney to contest the suit would very likely have exceeded that amount. Some parties who were totally innocent of signal pirating and didn't even own a receiver or satellite d*sh also capitulated (at least according to online posts by their respective attorneys) because of fears over the negative publicity a suit would bring and the costs of defending against the suit.

In the case of IKS, if the targeted end user was in fact using the IKS dongle or receiver to decrypt the provider's signals (after all, what "other purpose" is there?), the outcome is likely to heavily favor the plaintiff, not the defendant. In the case of a dedicated IKS receiver like the Nfusion, one could argue that the receiver can also be used for "true FTA." However, that argument doesn't seem to hold much water when you consider that IKS receivers are on the crappy side of the equation for true FTA. Even the ancient and discontinued Fortecs and Coolsats will run circles around an IKS receiver in any true FTA application. So why would anyone pay $200 for an IKS receiver when you can purchase an FTA receiver that actually works better for its intended purpose (true FTA) for one-fourth the cost? That, of course, is where the lame excuses begin to flower and the in-jest posts proliferate like weeds.

Let's apply some additional common sense. What's the risk factor that the provider(s) will go after IKS manufacturers, dealers and end-users? Well, DN and b*v are both willing to invest millions of dollars in a card swap and millions more in tech support, Nagra 3 licensing fees, and other asociated expenses to stop signal piracy. That's a given. If IKS receivers are able to stay up (and that is NOT a given) after the new encryption techniques have been implemented, guess which receivers will then gain the FULL attention of the providers? IKS numbers are still relatively small compared to the total pie but those numbers are growing. As IKS gains traction with an increasing share of the market, isn't it only reasonable to expect unwanted attention from the providers in the not too distant future? In fact, that's probably something you can take to the bank.

I have always felt that DN was always somewhat benevolent towards end users and their primary legal focus was against the distribution channel (manufacturers and dealers). That may be due, in part, to the backlash that DirecTV suffered when they opted to sue the consumer and DN may not want to repeat the same mistake. However, that benevolence may take a back seat when it comes to IKS because the IKS approach makes no pretense whatsoever about being a hobby, "testing," or any other form of casual viewing. IKS is a more determined, focused, and intentional effort to pirate provider content not unlike the purchase intent behind Hu cards and card unloopers of yesteryear. If you're still tempted to go down this slippery slope, then consider this opinion and observation. The greatest potential risk to IKS users will probably NOT rest in their IP exposure but in the audit trail that is left behind when making an IKS dongle or receiver purchase. Purchasing one online and/or paying for it with a credit card or PayPal will leave a trail that will lead directly to your doorstep if the provider(s) decides to launch a legal offensive against IKS.

Here's the net, net bottom line: ONLY YOU can make the final decision whether to purchase or not to purchase. The intent of this post is neither to encourage nor discourage you from considering an IKS dongle or receiver. The sole intent is to make you aware of factors that you may not have considered previously. There is a tendency for users to simply look at the end result (i.e., being able to be almost always "UP") and not the potential risks and other factors involved in the use of IKS. Use your own judgment, do lots of reading, evaluate all of the potential consequences and run "what if" scenarios through your mind; then proceed from there. For members determined to go ahead with an IKS purchase, let me provide some commonsense advice. I strongly recommend that you consider making your purchase only from a local dealer (i.e., in person), use an alias instead of your real identity (if the dealer requires a name and address for the sales receipt), and pay for your purchase in cash.

My own gut feeling is that the odds are in your favor anyway but if it turns out otherwise, those who left an audit trail of their IKS purchase(s) will probably be among the first casualties. This was a long post and if you stayed with me to the end, I appreciate your interest and hope that it may help protect some of you from one aspect of an IKS purchase that you may not have previously considered.
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lyncher · #7 (**permalink**) 22nd December 2008, 06:28 PM

again the plot thickens

me personally will stay away from ''IKS'' PERIOD

MOD · #8 (**permalink**) 22nd December 2008, 06:35 PM

same here. was just curious as to what everyone thinks about it. this is interesting though

lflame904 · #9 (**permalink**) 22nd December 2008, 06:36 PM

Iks is just a bread trail leading back to the end users. If you want to know if its safe to use then that should tell you something. And if i remember right one receiver manf. or coding team using iks had their servers busted and taken.

ramrod · #10 (**permalink**) 22nd December 2008, 07:43 PM

Yes it may have flaws that could be compromised over a period of time but only perhaps to individuals that don’t know how to protect themselves properly. Last time I heard FTA was not illegal in Canada. I would be under the impression or guess that IKS with FTA may fall under that category as well? It’s only illegal for someone selling and or re-selling the FTA to program it for the purpose of pirating. IKS providers do not and should not install programming VIA IKS. IKS providers are not re-sellers nor do they ask for any money in return. It’s a service that is broadcasted VIA internet where anyone using the internet could be accused of using or monitoring. It’s a sticky situation to say the least with a lot of loop holes. If someone is going to be accused if utilizing IKS they had also better get a warrant to enter their homes as well first to acquire more evidence that there actually doing something illegal. Internet monitoring and acquiring your IP is absolutely not going to prove anything nor will it hold up in court.

View Poll Results: is nfusion safe to use ????
yes it is safe to use	26	28.57%
no it is not safe	20	21.98%
not too sure	45	49.45%
Voters: 91. You may not vote on this poll

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